Larry Casper

To balance the needs of people and nature, indigenous leader Larry Casper says we need to understand traditional knowledge – and the medicine wheel – and how it informs good land-use decisions. Chair of the Central Interior First Nations Community Futures, Larry has worked with all levels of government to address issues such as forestry management, grizzly bear population recovery and hydro development. And for that reason, few understand the importance of the Crown’s – the government’s – duty to consult Indigenous nations better. We spoke with Larry by email to learn more about the connection between nature and culture and how he has sought to balance protecting healthy ecosystems with creating economic opportunity for his community.

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What makes a successful project?

It may seem a bit obvious, but in order to execute a successful project, you need to know what a project is. The Project Management Institute says a project is: a temporary endeavor undertaken to create a unique product or service. I like this. Projects start and end (temporary endeavor), and when they end, there’s a new ‘thing’ (unique product or service) that you can point to as the output of the project. That ‘thing’ could be a new building, a new app, a new process, a new marketing campaign, a new department, a new policy – anything that didn’t exist before. The key thing to keep in mind is that using and maintaining the ‘thing’ you’ve created is not part of the project, however, putting in place the systems and processes needed to effectively use or maintain that ‘thing’ can be. For example, if you’ve built a new condo building, you need insurance and maybe contracts with gardeners, a site supervisor, a functioning owners’ strata, and garbage services. The use of the building and all of the maintenance activities that take place after the building is delivered are not part of the project, but getting all these contracts, etc. in place to keep the building running can be part of the project. 

Normally, when we think of a project, we think of an initiative that needs a team of people to pull it off. The first step in project success is getting everyone on the same page about what that initiative is actually going to deliver.  Making sure that the ‘thing’ you’re driving towards is what’s actually needed is crucial. To make sure we’re headed in the right direction, I ask five questions, in sequence:

1. What is the problem or opportunity we are trying to address? To start, everyone needs to be on the same page about what we are trying to make better (ie. what is the problem statement?) 
2. What benefits are we trying to achieve? This is where we get specific about what we want to improve. Sometimes we want to make something take less time or energy, sometimes we are trying to communicate something to a wider group of people. Whatever the case, what are the outcomes of the project? What are the desired results of your ‘thing’ being put into the universe? It’s hard, but if you can quantify your desired benefits with numbers, all the better (eg. Reduce process by 20 minutes; 200 people know this program exists, etc). 
3. What has to change to realize those benefits? This is where people come into play. All projects impact people in one way or another. Answering this question is key to pinpointing the specific processes or activities or gaps that our project is going to attack. 
4. What is the project scope? Now we are in a position to figure out what we’re going to do. If we want to get from A (question 1), to B (question 2), by changing C (question 3), what all needs to happen? Do we need to design and rollout an awareness campaign? Do we need to buy and install some new software? Do we need to organize a march? Do we need to review and write a new policy or operating procedures? And what are the steps to do that?
5. Who is the sponsor? Most Project Managers will tell you that having a good project sponsor is the most important part of project success. A project Sponsor is the champion of the project. They are the people approving the project scope, budget, and schedule but more importantly, they are the people the Project Manager will go to if they get stuck. They remove roadblocks and help to keep things moving. For this reason a project Sponsor is someone senior and influential in the organization you’re working in. In small organizations and grassroots initiatives, it is very common for the Project Champion to also be the Project Manager.

How critical is research?

The more we know about the problem our project seeks to address, the better positioned we are to define meaningful project objectives. In other words, the more you know about what’s going on, the better your decisions will be about what it is you should be doing.

A major caveat to my answer is that as someone who manages projects for a living, my value add isn’t an understanding of the business or social or environmental problem we are tackling with the project, it’s my ability to facilitate the design and execution of a project plan. In short, I ask and involve people who know what’s up rather than research it myself. My role is to administer the project, to enable the team to do what they need to do to address the problem they’re trying to tackle – not to decide what the right thing to do is or even how best to go about doing it. 

Does focus matter?

You make time for the things you care about. Like anything, the more time you commit to a project the smoother and quicker things will go. As a Project Manager I have to account for the fact that the people working on my project have other things on the go. When creating a project plan, I take the availability of the people working on my project into account. I ask them or their manager how much time they are able to commit to the project and I design my plan around their availability. I do the same for myself. If I can’t get the people I need or the timelines aren’t lining up the way we need them to, then we have some serious conversations about what our priorities are. 

Why is maintaining the ecological integrity of your land important not only to the environment, but to your culture?

First of all, our people chose our territory well, as the area is rich in biodiversity with many biogeoclimatic zones that provide our people with a varied diet, and which was once bountiful enough to provide a diet of approximately 60% mule deer and 40% salmon. Meeting our sustenance needs then is an integral reason for supporting the health of our watersheds, as many of our

Over time, the Our elders shared traditions and practices, such as traditional burning for wildlife values and maintaining the health of the forest, or “only taking what we need (and giving thanks for what we take)”, as a means of supporting the well-being of the creatures and resources we in turn are dependent on. Again, we are reminded that everything is connected, and that by impacting one area or resource, it affects the well-being of others, so all should be considered in our definition of a healthy watershed.    

Currently, the St’át’imc further demonstrate this ecosystem-based approach through our draft Land Use Plan which identifies the grizzly bear as an umbrella species and that by protecting grizzly bear and its habitat, we also are protecting many other species within its broad range of activity. In further support of this, the St’át’imc Chiefs Council passed a tribal resolution that prohibits grizzly bear hunting within our traditional territory. Another example flowing is the identification of mule deer as a keystone species, and that further protection of migration routes and habitat is important and needed, in order to sustain this species for its many values. (St’at’imc Land Use Plan)

Our elders have also taught us to have respect for all living creatures (winged root, finned, two and four-legged people), that they have a place in the territory, and that as all living beings have a spirit; that they are worthy of respect and protection.

Although our traditional practices and teachings are not followed to the extent they once were, the However, in that context, we also have a history of defending our territory from neighboring tribes, and have a variety of boundary markers or place names that clearly demonstrate the scope of the St’át’imc Territory.

You’ve said that you’re not a spiritual leader, but that within us all there is a teacher, a student, a healer and a leader. That’s a powerful idea. With that in mind, can you explain the medicine wheel, and why it helps connect people to the land and offers a reminder of the need for personal balance?

It was Roy Henry Vickers, a well-known Indigenous artist, who first spoke these words. For me, it demonstrates how each one of us, though we may come from different backgrounds – with different challenges or successes in our upbringing – are nonetheless equal to one another in value, knowledge and spirit. We are all students and constantly learning from one another, as each one of us has something that can be shared or taught to another person, whether it be a simple teaching tool or one complex. This keeps us humble and respectful of one another, as each of us is equal in the eyes of the creator.

The medicine wheel – the circle of life, sacred circle or sacred hoop – is common to many Indigenous cultures and can be used as a tool both for both personal well-being or as a tool for broader application. The circle incorporates four directions (north-south-east-west), with the four colors (white, yellow, red and black) symbolizing the four races as they dispersed over the earth. It’s interesting to note that I once heard a Secwepemc (Shuswap) elder explain that at one time all the colours were red, as in that pre-contact period, there were only úcwalmicw (the people of the land), or Indigenous tribes that were known to exist.

The medicine wheel also helps with personal healing (physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually):

• Mental (Mind): Self-care includes any activities that help to develop our mind, and mental health by encouraging a positive and balanced outlook on life – how \you view self, community, tribe and world; formal and informal education, such as teachings from elders.
• Emotional (Heart): Self-care includes any activities that help us to express a wide range of feelings in a healthy way; how you feel about yourself and others; how past events affect how you are now; identify root causes to heal/love oneself, in order to love/help others.
• Physical (Body): Self-care includes any activities that help to promote our physical wellness and that helps our body to grow strong and healthy, such as exercise and well-balanced meals. And it’s not only about looking after your physical self, but also exemplified through respect for other physical beings, the opposite sex, and animals and nature.
• Spiritual (Spirit): Self-care includes any activities that help us to connect with the spiritual part of ourselves and helps us to strengthen our relationship with God, Creator or a Higher Power; it’s a respect for all beliefs; an understanding that all life has a spirit, that we are all equal and that our spirit lives on.

One of the main attributes of the medicine wheel is how it demonstrates that we are all connected. We all share and live on this planet together, and can affect others with our actions, both positively and negatively. I’ve read some teachings that indicate we also have a responsibility to share our unique gifts or perspectives with one another, such as living in harmony with mother earth and father sky, as it’s a shared responsibility and beneficial to all of us.

The circle also references self, family, community and world, indicating that as one heals self, that it may have a positive effect on the family, which in turn may positively effect the community. Again, this shows that we are all connected, and how change in one area can affect change in another. This also shows how the medicine wheel can be used in a broader application, with the premise that starting with yourself is all important, as this gives you the tools in moving forward as a teacher or healer in reaching balance, and then being able to help others (which takes communication, patience, love, respect, integrity and being non-judgmental).

This is another example of the broader application of the medicine wheel, with the position of the four animal symbols in the St’át’imc Circle of Life each carrying special attributes or characteristics that we can learn from or which may help us in personal healing or broader purposes. One example I’ve used is the bear to the west. As bears hibernate, it’s viewed as a creature of dreams and thus able to help with dream work (a quality that some animal spirits/helpers have) and introspection in helping people unravel or identify issues for personal healing. Each nation or culture uses different animal symbols in their medicine wheel, and all are displayed prominently and remind us that they too have a place in this land. Consequently, in utilizing the medicine wheel as a teaching tool, the prominent reference to its animal symbols (and what each symbol entails) further underscores their cultural value and reason for maintaining the ecological integrity of the land and resources within the territory.

When we talk of a global biodiversity crisis, in Canada we often equate it to the managing of our resources and the managing of our wildlife. You’ve worked with the Lillooet Tribal Council (LTC) and St’át’imc Government Services (SGS)– and worked with many stakeholders in the process – to address lands, resources and stewardship. What role did traditional knowledge – and the medicine wheel – play in your work?

In my past roles, the acknowledgement, source and respectful use of traditional knowledge has been all important in terms of guiding stewardship activities at both the community and tribal levels. For example, early meetings with various stakeholder groups, and members of the St’át’imc communities identified elders’ concerns about the effects of timber harvesting, particularly on mule deer habitat, migration routes and population numbers.

As the project manager with the Lower Bridge River Spiritual and Cultural Value Monitoring project, survey data gathered by our participating elders helped decide the most appropriate minimal flow into the Bridge River system. A tremendous amount of additional knowledge was gathered through our google earth mapping meetings, in which the elders shared knowledge on trails, hunting areas, spiritual areas, old village sites, supernatural beings and battle sites.

And with the development of the St’át’imc Land Use Plan, which has the broad title of Nxekmenlhkálha lti tmícwa, we created the laws of our land as taught by our elders. Later on, elders also provided feedback in the development of the St’át’imc Tribal Code, St’át’imc Nation Heritage Code and the St’át’imc Forestry Code.      

It was only after connecting with my partner, Reena, that I learned about the potential use and value of the medicine wheel. As Reena and various teachers helped me learn about the medicine wheel to improve my well-being, I was able to ask questions and learn enough about the medicine wheel to appreciate how it demonstrates the value of connectivity. I saw it as a tool for broader application, such as demonstrating the lifecycle of Mother Earth.

I once considered myself a linear thinker, looking at planning from point A to B, but now consider myself grounded in the cyclical process of the Circle of Life, which feels more natural and supports the ecosystem-based approach to planning I learned to appreciate while working for both the LTC and SGS.

Unfortunately, due to the impacts of colonialism and the Indian Act, the use of the medicine wheel as a formal teaching tool has declined, as fewer elders and teachers are knowledgeable, available or willing to teach its use and benefits to a modern-day audience. However, this is slowly going through a revival, as many schools utilize it in some fashion, and it is still possible to approach and learn about this extraordinary tool from knowledgeable persons in the community.

The need to balance people and nature is central to land and resource management anywhere, including where you’ve focussed your work. You have to work with those who have differing opinions. How challenging is it to find that balance? And what lessons have you learned that we should all know?

In my experience, it has been challenging to find this balance, though, as you would imagine, it is much easier within the A primary reason for this has been unity at the St’át’imc Chiefs Council (SCC) level, where all 11 communities are represented, as well as the St’át’imc having a key foundation document: The Declaration of the Lillooet Tribe (May 10, 1911), which underscores the position of the many Chiefs and communities with the federal and provincial governments, underscoring St’át’imc sovereignty and full access to resources within our own territory. This has provided a basis point for other documents such as the draft St’át’imc Land Use Plan, St’át’imc Tribal Code, and other codes focussed on Forestry, Fish and Wildlife, and/or Cultural Heritage.

One example of challenges encountered with outside parties was the attempt by the SCC in reaching a government-to-government agreement between the Province of British Columbia over a number of items, including the rate of extraction of timber resources from the St’át’imc territory. This unfortunately stalled, as both sides could not reach an agreement on the scope of protection of riparian areas and old growth forest.

Another example of challenges encountered was the perception by the St’át’imc of the province utilizing the regulatory body Land, Air and Water BC to approve permits and licensing for various uses within the territory, without appropriate St’át’imc consent. This served to further compromise the the decision-making authority of the St’át’imc within their own territory. One of the many challenges faced by our communities in protecting the integrity of our lands and resources, was the constant flow of referrals that would go to each office, with no revenues attached, but expecting a response to the referral, often in a 30-day window.

Lessons that I have learned that everyone should know when working with Indigenous communities on land-use decisions?

• Any project involving resource extraction or impacts to the land, should be conceptually introduced to the Indigenous Chief and Council of the community being affected. It is not a good idea to go to the first meeting with maps in hand and ribbons already in the field. The earlier that you can discuss a project with the respective First Nation will be much appreciated, and may save you time and resources if the project is subsequently dropped due to unsatisfactory consultation.
• While it is okay to communicate by phone to introduce yourself or share information, it is never recommended that this is how you base your consultative approach, as you may be expected to send a letter or email outlining your request to meet with either Chief and Council or a designated community representative.
• Keep in mind that the First Nation may be independent or a member of a larger body such as a tribal council or higher-level body like a Chiefs Council. If the First Nation belongs to any of these groups, you can expect to meet with them as the territory in mind is or may be viewed as a shared interest area by the other member First Nations.
• First Nations interest with any project includes a number of factors: how a proposal might impact fish, water, wildlife, medicinal plants and wildlife values; whether the proposal will provide meaningful job creation and apprenticeships (not just minor opportunities such as flagging, catering and labour support); and if the proposal offers a fair percentage of revenue sharing based on industry or project returns.

Parks, we’ve been told, are critical to saving threatened species such as the grizzly and caribou, yet they have a colonial history. What is your perception of parks: are they a force for good, or do we need to rethink their role in conservation?

My perception of parks is generally favourable as it is a means protecting our environment, as well as key wildlife species and ecosystems that may benefit from this. My concerns relate to the perception that park values are sometimes eroded or restrictions eased in favour of road development, timber harvesting or other industrial activities. In addition, I question if enough input from local communities and Indigenous communities are provided, as we sometimes see key wildlife habitat – like migration routes – missed in the identification of park area or boundaries.

I often thought that a good partnership opportunity, between applicable federal and provincial agencies and local Indigenous communities, would be in the recognition and establishment of a First Nation natural resource officer or guardian program, which would both support conservation officers (and their large monitoring role), as well as support the stewardship role of First Nations within their own territories. This would be a win-win situation, and could play a part in conservation efforts, whether in a park or traditional territory setting.

In North America, conservation strategies usually are based around the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation – wildlife management that uses hunting to regulate populations. From an Indigenous perspective, what is your view of this model? Does it have a value and should it be used more – or less – to protect species at risk?

I once attend a wildlife workshop where a delegation from the Navaho Wildlife Department demonstrated their relative autonomy over wildlife management activities within their territory, such as creating the parameters (age and size, for example) of what deer bucks could be hunted as a means of ensuring sustainable populations. This type of model, based on the acknowledgement and recognition of Indigenous principles and approach to resource management, could be quite effective. To work, government agencies would need to enter into partnership agreements with First Nations that would support the provision of Indigenous natural resource officers. This would provide much needed support to under-manned conservation officers, as well as recognize the natural stewardship role of First Nations. Most importantly, it would help maintain the environmental integrity of the territory.

That said, I have much love and respect for wildlife species and do not agree with the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation that allows trophy hunting as a management activity.

Ultimately there is a debate about whether we can protect and save every species. What are your thoughts? Can we afford to save everything? Can we afford not to?

While I agree that it may costly or difficult to save every species, if one starts with the premise that “all life is important,” it seems natural to recognize what species we are impacting by our activities. This base line of information can then be catalogued and reviewed for potential restoration efforts in the future.

One strategy that we utilized with the St’át’imc Land Use Plan, was the recognition that we lacked the time, resources and capacity to protect all wildlife within the territory. This resulted in the use of the umbrella species approach, with the intent to protect grizzly bears and habitat, with the understanding that this would in turn help to protect other species, like the wolverine, within this area. This is one possible approach that could work, providing the area of protection is large enough to overlap other key habitats.

One other thought that comes to mind with this question. The historical length of time that the St’át’imc have lived on this land – allowing for the establishment of a language system, place names, traditions and practices on how resources are utilized for current, as well as future generations – has given us a perspective that all life is important. It seems only natural that a relative newcomer population might not share this same connection to the land, as they have not been here long enough to establish it. With a deeper relationship to the land, maybe the answer to this question will be more obvious to more of us.

You’ve seen a lot through your journey. When it comes to decisions about wildlife, about your land, do you feel governments have treated you as a nation, as a full partner? Are governments, businesses and even advocates honouring their duty to consult?

I believe the federal and provincial governments still have a long way to go in recognizing us as a full partner in the land we all live. It boggles my mind that the onus is on First Nations to prove they occupy a territory, despite the tremendous record of culture and heritage activities displayed to mainstream society. Linguists marvel at the time it must have taken to support the variety of Indigenous languages within BC alone. Mainstream society would benefit from learning about the European-based doctrine of consent, or “terra nullius,” which characterizes the land as empty – it’s the racist basis for governments to claim ownership of our Indigenous territories.

You’ve made an incredible difference to people and nature – and not just within your nation, but to all of society. But you’re not done – more work remains.

We’re facing declining salmon stocks, with some runs near extinction and many more needing supplemental hatchery support. This is critical on so many fronts.

We are still learning about the effects of climate change on wildlife and fisheries habitat, as well as on communities. What will more rain mean for landslides and floods? Will we have more forest fires to combat?

We’re beginning to understand the impacts by weekend mountain bikers and ATV or dirt bikers users on the ecosystems, but we have yet to find a solution.

We don’t have a government-to-government relationship with the federal government. A willingness by the province to enter into one with the St’át’imc is important without a relationship at the federal level. It’s what we need to address referrals and fully informed consent, timber harvesting allocations, and even child and welfare responsibilities.

Many challenges remain and that’s just on St’át’imc land.

To be part of the solution to these challenges – within your territory and beyond – how important is it for students – Indigenous and non-Indigenous – to understand their relationship to the land?

Yes, it’s important for students to understand their relationship to the land, as we all are inherently úcwalmicw (the people of the land), wherever you originate from. We all are part of the Circle of Life, and as we are all connected, we share not only the right to live in a healthy sustainable fashion, but also the responsibility to ensure the sustainability of the land. This is particularly important for students and people of all ages who live in urban areas. It is beneficial for them to understand and appreciate where the food on their shelves originates from in order to view how they are impacting the food chain and the resources within this great land.

Given all that you’ve experienced, what’s the one thing you know now that you wish you knew at 15?

I would say I wish I could have listened to the stories and experiences of my uncles, aunties and grandparents, as they lived in a time where our territory was being impacted by large rail, road and hydroelectric development projects. But they still would have been able to share with me stories on how bountiful our territory was, where the wildlife habitat was, how we traditionally managed the land, how we defended it from neighboring tribes, information on place names, spiritual areas etc. I find this very interesting information, and in knowing it at an earlier age would have allowed me to have even more of an impact in the work I’ve tackled.

Different Perspectives